It has been over two decades since the D.C. art-punk band Black Eyes has put music out into the world, but judging from the two initial singles taken from Hostile Design, their forthcoming new album, the band is picking up right where they left off back in the no-rules 2000s. “Pestilence” has all the characteristics of the hallmark Black Eyes sound: jerky, double-drummer rhythms, free jazz-inspired sax, jagged blasts of distortion. At a time when young people are starting to dig back into the 2000s for inspiration, the band’s new music serves as a potential pathway for listeners to begin exploring the more cutty corners of that era’s indie music. 

It’s exactly that period I was interested in when I sent some questions over to the band recently. The first era of Black Eyes ended at the crossroads of two very distinct moments in cultural time: before and after social media. The band’s music, too, is tethered to multiple impulses. It’s clearly in the lineage of Dischord Records and related post-hardcore activities, but it also pushes towards a more exuberant, affirmative sensibility, one that would come to define underground music in the second half of the 2000s. I went deep with Black Eyes—Dan Caldas; Daniel Martin-McCormick; Hugh McElroy; Jacob Long; Mike Kanin—about D.C. at the turn of the century, touring after 40, and the kind of music the band used to play in the van during those long-ass drives. Hostile Design comes out October 10th on Dischord.

Can you talk about what the D.C. music landscape was like when Black Eyes started? What was your band trying to add to that conversation?

J: D.C. felt like a pretty exciting place when we were starting. We had done a couple of bands previously that were various iterations of the five of us so it more felt like a continuation of that than anything else. But at that point we had lots of bands we were friends with that we were excited about/playing with/etc. There also was a pretty healthy house show/DIY/odd space scene to immediately dive into, along with a couple of venues—The Black Cat and Galaxy Hut, which was kinda like playing a house show at a bar—who were extremely supportive from the beginning as well.

M: Concur with Jacob here. It felt vibrant. There was a lot going on. Q and Not U was well-established by the time Black Eyes got going. Fugazi was still playing. El Guapo. Early Humans. MMR. Later, Et At It. Those are just some of the folks that I remember seeing a bunch, playing with a bunch. And that was just our immediate crew. I think Dead Meadow was still in town? Ted Leo started his solo/Pharmacists work. I think I remember seeing him open for Q in a basement; they covered Lungfish’s “To Whom You Were Born” together. Oh! Lungfish too. 

We wrote about some of the more impactful shows we saw in the zine we put out in 2023; the Intima was on there, the Ex at 9:30 opening for Fugazi in 1999, I think? A Milford Graves performance that I declined to attend, a fact that I deeply personally regret. I don’t quite remember being intentional about adding anything specific to all of this as we started playing?  But I could well be missing something. I do remember not wanting to sound like other stuff. And I remember really being wowed by the interlocking polyrhythms that Fugazi was making in its later years. 

Dan: Amazing time to be in D.C. The Dischord people that were very influential to me, were still active—Fugazi, Lungfish, All Scars—as well as all of these other creative, thoughtful, friendly people in and around punk. It’s hard to say what we were specifically trying to add to the conversation, other than the music we created together. I think we were trying not to be boring.

Daniel: It felt both vibrant and in-between. The influence of Dischord loomed large, but it had been a label for 20 years and a lot of the core artists had already made their most seminal work. You could feel a sea change with new millennium rock ‘n roll in NYC and a sense of emptiness, like, “Well, what do we do now?” Many of the groups who were most exciting to me felt like they were trying something fresh rather than extending a lineage. Personally, I was just so electrified at the idea that punk could open up to so many possibilities, I wanted to dive in headfirst.

H: There was a lot of cool stuff happening in and around D.C. when we were getting going. Q and Not U, Pupils, Quix*o*tic were putting out records—just to name a few—and it felt like there was a fair amount of continuity from earlier generations of D.C. punks and younger folks like us. There had been kind of a wave of younger weirdo no-wave-y stuff a couple years before—Meta*matics, Meltdown and associated bands, The Crainium—and along with older bands I enjoyed like Trans Am and Lungfish, it contributed to the feeling that there was a lot of room for doing stuff that wasn’t just hardcore or punk rock. D.C. having a lot of all-ages shows made it easy to get involved when I was a teenager so by the time we were playing shows I felt pretty comfortable in the broader music landscape around town.

How about by the end of your first run as a band? What changed or developed—both within the larger East Coast underground scene and your band?

M: I think our personal interests started to diverge by the end of the first run. I don’t so much remember significant changes in the wider infrastructure? When I first started traveling in bands, everything was booked on the phone; one shared lists of DIY or DIY-friendly promoters. Sent out tapes. Waited for an answer. But I think most of that shit had moved online by the time we were active. We might even have had a Myspace page? I don’t recall. My feeling is that a lot may have changed right after we stopped playing that first time, but I could be wrong?

J: We definitely ended pre-Myspace—or at least pre in booking terms—but most of the booking was done via email by the point we were a band.

Daniel: Internally, our band had evolved from something looser into a very driven and focused musical unit. It was exciting but it really felt like just the beginning of a larger musical journey. We were struggling to reconcile ideas with each other, but to our credit, the only thing that changed was creative differences. As far as any sort of “success,” I never felt tensions inside the group to pursue a more commercial approach and there were no arguments about whether we should shoot a music video or court press. We just went as hard as we could and then imploded. As soon as we broke up, social media started to enter everyone’s lives and slowly the world would change, but Black Eyes just missed that. 

H: I agree with what everyone else says here. I feel like gas prices were starting to increase pretty steadily over our first life as a band. That didn’t affect us super intensely but I think it contributed later to challenges around the economics of DIY touring.

How important was go-go music in establishing your voice as a band? Any good memories of seeing go-go music live?

J: I mean go-go is certainly just part of the musical environment in DC.  I wouldn’t say it was necessarily a primary influence personally but it always kind of feels like it’s there in the background in DC. I never saw any actual live go-go shows but have strong memories of seeing guys busking, playing buckets—and shopping carts—on the street.

M: Like Jacob says, it’s part of the cultural fabric here. I think it played a role in my understanding of an extended groove, and the driving power it can have, I think. I saw Backyard once, that was it, I’m afraid. I was in high school. They opened up for Fugazi. 

Dan: I had never heard of go-go music before I moved to D.C.—didn’t realize “Da Butt” was a go-go song when I was growing up. At the time of our initial run as a band, I didn’t appreciate it that much, but years later, especially after finally seeing Trouble Funk live, it started to really click for me.

Daniel: The idea of a percussive, longform music spawned in DC was inspiring. I loved go-go at the time and would listen to live tapes you could buy at Tower Records. But we could never play like that. And we didn’t really try. 

H: Yeah go-go was and is inescapable in D.C. I mean I played a bucket on one song: “X.” While my beat wasn’t really a go-go beat I’m sure I was pulling something from the atmosphere—or trying to at least.

Back in the day, what kind of music were you listening to in the van when you were on tour? Did the act of traveling and listening to music—and, of course, performing it—change the way you approached songwriting as a band?

Dan: I don’t know if it changed the way we approached songwriting, but the van listening experience was very formative for me. It was great to get exposed to stuff I hadn’t heard before from others, and to share whatever music I had gotten obsessed with that day/week. Pretty eclectic mix of reggae, jazz, hip hop, post punk, industrial, world music, etc.

Also the Judgement Night soundtrack.

M: A lot of everything. We actually made a mix that tries to arrange a wide sampling of what we were listening to chronologically. Concur with Dan about how the listening experience in the van was influential—it was an extension of this, I think, very wonderful, ongoing conversation we’ve had collectively about music.

J: Also the Jerky Boys tape got a lot of listens especially once tour insanity started to set in.

M: Oh man! That reminds me that we also had a Richard Pryor tape. So effing good.

Daniel: The van was the site of many moments of musical communion and many arguments. As far as our playing, there’s an inevitable speeding up and rocking-out that comes with playing a song night after night—it just gets crazier. But also, the reason for each section and its dramatic/gestural purpose becomes clearer. So as we’re playing the part over and over, you come to understand the essence behind the part better. Also also, the delirium of being in the van for so long definitely makes you feel kinda crazed, so by the time you get to the show all you want to do is destroy. 

H: There was stuff I wouldn’t have put on on my own at home that was good for me to listen to with everyone. It was as people have described a pretty wide-ranging mix of stuff. I think in terms of writing it helped foster the openness-to-everything that characterized our songwriting. 

You've all done plenty of things since the first dissolution of Black Eyes. What have you brought from your other endeavors into this iteration of the band?

J: For me I feel like it’s hard to say what specifically I’ve brought from other creative endeavors other than of course anything you do adds to your ideas and experience that you bring to something. I feel like the dynamic the five of us have is pretty insular in that we bring whatever it is we bring to the table but it kinda just adds to whatever something is going to be when we end up with something. I think if anything, being 20 years older and having a bit more patience and perspective on things has helped this time around more than anything specific on the creative side of things.

M: I think Jacob puts it very well there. I feel, personally, that the additional perspective of time and having not made music with these folks for 20 years has made me appreciate this current experience all the more. Time has also softened, for me, a shell I’d personally built around music that I found easy to dismiss. My hope is that I let more in,  in many different ways, and that this contributes to the larger whole in a positive way?

Daniel: Writing electronic music makes me appreciate much more the intricacy of everyone’s contributions. Studying classical music gave me some tools to help get my voice back in shape. Also, playing a bunch of other music made me realize how personal and special our music is, which makes it that much more fun to play.

H: Being a teacher for the last 20-odd years has made me less self-conscious about talking on stage. Musically, I think I’m more willing to let things take shape and not try to direct their outcome. I don’t know if that’s to do with music I’ve worked on or just age. 

What is it like playing shows in 2025 versus in, say, 2004? 

J: Well, having a thorough sound check and traveling with a sound person are two things we did not do, and probably wouldn’t have seen a point in doing, 20 years ago, so those things are different. And just a lot of little logistic things but honestly once the show starts it feels very similar to me. The energy and feeling of playing with the five of us and for people still feels almost exactly the same and things are a little more controlled but still often on the edge of falling apart—in mostly a good way—a lot of the time.

M: WORD about the sound check and sound person. And word about the energy. I’ll say I feel a bit more winded perhaps when we play? But I still feel that same buzz I got 20 years ago playing with these folks. 

Dan: It was kind of a shock to the system at first because I hadn’t played live in years. Also I hadn’t played drums regularly in over ten years. I have to be more rigid with my diet/sleep schedule to have the stamina for the shows. Having said that, there is a comfortability factor that I feel playing with these guys, that came back pretty quickly. 

H: Yeah, each show is a bit more of a production in the sense that people either have to travel to D.C. or we have to travel to where we are playing separately. I definitely wouldn’t have seen the point of a sound person in 2004. I feel like I am more aware of what other people are playing in the moment now, which might be related to having better sound.

What kind of music have you been listening to lately? Have you brought that inspiration into the band? 

J: One thing I would say is that in an inverse way coming back to the band brought my back to listening to a fair amount of free jazz/saxophone forward music. Lately I’ve been on a big Peter Brotzmann kick, especially a lot of music he made in the last 10-15 years of his life.  Also have been listening a lot to the music of Darius Jones who is probably my favorite current sax player. Around the house I listen to a lot of Indian classical music and reggae/dub which may or may not find its way into what I bring to the band.

M: I’ve been on a bit of a Basic Channel kick—thanks Daniel! We’ve just moved to a new house that has wood floors, wood molding, wood kind of everywhere. I’m pretty stoked about what—I think, lol—this does to the stereo set-up.  I played Coltrane’s “Ole” through it when we first got it back up and running and I sure convinced myself of this fact. No idea if it is real. Our four year old is also very into Max Romeo’s “One Step Forward”  at the moment. 

Daniel: I’m obsessed with the new Chuquimamani-Condori material. I’ve been a fan of their work since 2014, but this new era is blowing my mind. I’m telling everyone this is my Neutral Milk Hotel. 

H: My household has been going through a major Pet Shop Boys moment for the last few years. I found a 1993 bhangra/dancehall/hip hop record in the thrift store this summer that I’ve been a little obsessed with. I’ve gotten to hear snatches of the new Unmarry Me stuff and everyone should be on the lookout for that. 

Do you have any major non-musical influences at the moment?

J: Creatively probably the biggest one is my visual artwork: painting and collage and mixture of the two. In terms of energy brought to the band it would probably be the shit state of the country/world as well.

M: I’ve been trying to read more fiction. Dan got me into Toni Morrison, and I’ve been really enjoying her work. I’m about to finish Richard Powers’ The Overstory, which I’ve also loved. It’s not fiction, of course, but Maggie Nelson’s work has also really blown my mind, particularly On Freedom. I think I might read Jane next.

If Black Eyes could back up a rapper, who would it be?

J: If picking my current fave it would be Earl Sweatshirt—but I’m not sure how well that would work. Based on who we listened to the most back in the day it would probably be Aesop Rock. Another shout would be Aceyalone just because he rapped to a track that was built entirely from Ornette Coleman samples which is pretty great.

M: Dang! I feel so out of touch! Concur with Aesop Rock from back in the day. I think it’d be amazing to play behind Chuck D.

Dan: ODB feels right to me.

H: MC Yallah or Warrior Queen—if I can stretch to include singer/DJ here.

Photo Credit: Josh Sisk